SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
Whether you came of age in the '80s...
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "TOP GUN")
TOM CRUISE: (As Maverick) I feel the need, the need for speed.
DETROW: ...The '90s...
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "JERRY MAGUIRE")
CRUISE: (As Jerry Maguire) Show me the money.
DETROW: ...Or the 2000s...
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "TROPIC THUNDER")
CRUISE: (As Les Grossman) The universe is talking to us right now. You just got to listen.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "LOW")
FLO RIDA: (Rapping) Gotta have them Apple Bottom Jeans.
DETROW: ...Tom Cruise has been one of the world's biggest movie stars. His films have grossed over $12 billion worldwide. And at 62, he is still doing it with the release of the eighth "Mission: Impossible" film, "Final Reckoning."
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE - THE FINAL RECKONING")
CRUISE: (As Ethan Hunt) I need you to trust me one last time.
DETROW: To talk more about a career that has gone through more wild turns than your typical Hollywood blockbuster, I have brought in two people who have a lot of thoughts - and I know this firsthand - a lot of thoughts about Tom Cruise - NPR All Things Considered producer Marc Rivers and NPR editor Barrie Hardimon. Hey, there.
BARRIE HARDIMON, BYLINE: Hi.
MARC RIVERS, BYLINE: Great to be here for this important conversation.
HARDIMON: (Laughter).
DETROW: Marc, you have been waiting for this moment to be asked this on a microphone for, like, perhaps a decade.
RIVERS: Maybe my whole life, honestly.
DETROW: Here you are. I know you love Tom Cruise. Please tell us why.
RIVERS: For me, he's kind of the ultimate movie star. He's alone among stars I think would actually die for entertainment, die for the movies. Now, I don't condone that, but I do respect it. This guy has built up over the course of a career, a passionate, some might say, even maniacal devotion to the movies. And I just - it's so hypnotic. It's so fascinating to me. I think with even great movie stars, you can tell when they are checked out of a movie.
DETROW: Yes.
RIVERS: You know, when - even if the movie's not good, they will check out. And Tom Cruise is never checked out. He is always - he's always dialed in. And if you go back to his career, it is wild just how many straight-up bangers that he has in a variety of genres...
HARDIMON: Right.
RIVERS: ...Whether it's the courtroom drama, action movie, thriller, arthouse, just take, like, whichever. He just has so many...
HARDIMON: Romance.
RIVERS: Romance - just so many rewatchable films in a variety of genres. And I think about this line from "Sunset Boulevard" where Gloria Swanson says, you know...
HARDIMON: Oh, God.
RIVERS: Great movie, right?
HARDIMON: I just fell in love with you all over you all over again.
RIVERS: Where, you know, there's that great line where she says, I'm still big, and it's the pictures that got small.
HARDIMON: Yes.
RIVERS: Tom Cruise is not only still big. He wants to keep the movies big. He is like -I imagine he thinks of himself, like, Atlas, holding up the Earth, but the Earth is the movies. And it's crazy, but I just love it. And, yeah, I'll just watch him in anything until he actually does die for the movies. I will keep watching.
DETROW: Barrie, you and I are older souls than young Marc. And we have seen...
HARDIMON: Thank you for putting me in your category.
DETROW: ...Tom Cruise rise and fall...
HARDIMON: And jump.
DETROW: ...And do uncomfortable interviews and jump and ride a motorcycle and twist and turn. Where do you come out? Are you pro Tom Cruise? Are you anti-Tom Cruise? Are you somewhere in between Tom Cruise? Where are you?
HARDIMON: Tom Cruise has been a part of every part of my life. You know, this man has been in movies for four decades. I've been watching them for at least that long. I am a huge Tom Cruise fan. And I will agree with you, Marc, that there isn't - there is something really special about what he does on the screen. You know, I was watching "Minority Report" with the kids the other night, and he walked onto the screen, and I just kind of felt my body relaxed, like, OK, now I'm at a movie.
DETROW: Yeah.
HARDIMON: You know?
DETROW: Yeah.
HARDIMON: OK, great. We're here.
CRUISE: (As John Anderton) Why'd you catch that?
COLIN FARRELL: (As Danny Witwer) Because it was going to fall.
CRUISE: (As John Anderton) You're certain?
FARRELL: (As Danny Witwer) Yeah.
CRUISE: (As John Anderton) But it didn't fall. You caught it. The fact that you prevented it from happening doesn't change the fact that it was going to happen.
HARDIMON: And when I try to compare him to other movie stars, you know, I feel like I think of George Clooney as a Cary Grant. Like, I actually don't have a -there's not really a comp for him.
RIVERS: No one quite like him, yeah.
HARDIMON: Yeah. And I - again, I think there are times where the fact that he is Tom Cruise in every movie doesn't serve the movie. But there are plenty of movies...
DETROW: Yeah.
HARDIMON: ...Where it does. And I think we've all been surprised, you know, by his - by how good he can be in some things. And - but, again, as you pointed out, it's an enormous range of movies that can take a Tom Cruise.
RIVERS: If you look at the arc of his career starting from the '80s and on, you see a lot of interesting choices. I remember reading about him making this movie "Losin' It," which, you know, if you haven't seen "Losin' It." That's like "American Pie" if they went to Tijuana.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "LOSIN' IT")
CRUISE: (As Woody) We're going to be as crude as we want, as filthy as we want and as gross as we want.
RIVERS: It's a terrible movie. Tom Cruise...
HARDIMON: Are you kidding? You just sold it to me.
RIVERS: No. It's a lot worse than the premise sounds. Cruise did not do any press for it, didn't go to the premiere. I have this quote from him when he was talking about the movie. I realized not everybody is capable of making a good movie. And he decided after that that he only wanted to work with the best people. And he really has. Like, Cruise has worked with Francis Ford Coppola, Martin Scorsese, Oliver Stone, Tony and Ridley Scott, Paul Thomas Anderson, Sydney Pollack. It's just - and he's challenged his persona, and he's allowed these directors to kind of play with that persona in a way that I don't see a lot from his peers, like a Clooney or a Brad Pitt. So, I mean, you don't make a movie like "Eyes Wide Shut,"
RIVERS: You know, a movie that you make with your then wife, Nicole Kidman.
HARDIMON: Yeah.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "EYES WIDE SHUT")
CRUISE: (As William Harford) I tell you what I do know, is you got a little stoned tonight. You've been trying to pick a fight with me, and now you're trying to make me jealous.
NICOLE KIDMAN: (As Alice Harford) But you're not the jealous type, are you?
CRUISE: (As William Harford) No. I'm not.
RIVERS: You don't make that movie unless you are willing to really test yourself...
HARDIMON: Yeah.
RIVERS: ...And challenge yourself...
HARDIMON: Yeah.
RIVERS: ...As a performer.
HARDIMON: And challenge the marriage, yes.
RIVERS: Exactly.
HARDIMON: No. I would agree.
DETROW: Like, I think that is a good point, though, to talk about - like, Marc, like you said, he's very carefully making choices and building this career, and it's forward motion. Now I'm going to do this. Now I'm going to do this. And yet he is also at the same time, off the screen, his own worst enemy and kind of derails his career in the short term a few different times by doing interviews in places that are usually kind of, like, safe places...
HARDIMON: Yeah.
DETROW: ...Like Oprah Winfrey's couch, the "Today Show" set. Like, I remember watching these interviews live the first time...
HARDIMON: Same.
DETROW: ...And just going, oh, no. Something has gone horribly wrong...
HARDIMON: Yeah.
RIVERS: Yeah.
DETROW: ...Like jumping up and down on the couch.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE OPRAH WINFREY SHOW")
OPRAH WINFREY: Something happened to you. Something happened to you.
CRUISE: I'm in love.
(CHEERING)
HARDIMON: I remember seeing those live. I actually taped "Oprah Winfrey" every day.
RIVERS: Oh, wow.
HARDIMON: But I - you know, think he was always going to get his audience back because in the end, I think there's a sort of subconscious thing where we're like, the guy jumping on the couch is also the guy that's, like, standing in the room full of divorced women and saying he's completely - like, there's a reason that he exists in that way.
RIVERS: Yeah. He kind of makes a pivot where the crazy almost starts working for him, you know...
HARDIMON: Yes.
RIVERS: ...When he does "Tropic Thunder," and he's in the fat suit and he's ridiculous. And then he starts committing to "Mission: Impossible," where he's doing these absurd stunts. All of a sudden, the craziness becomes, like, almost an endearing thing.
HARDIMON: Yeah.
RIVERS: Like, oh, look what he's doing.
HARDIMON: It's a part of it.
RIVERS: Look what he's doing for the audience, for us.
DETROW: But at this point, I'm wondering, when we are at the point, though, of "Mission: Impossible 8," does the whole, like, stunts thing wear thin at a certain point?
HARDIMON: So...
DETROW: Like, maybe the answer is no. I don't know.
HARDIMON: I keep hearing you guys talking about the stunts. And I swear to God, I walked in here, and, like, it was - I really don't care who does the stunts. Like, I just - it does...
RIVERS: Cruise cares, though.
HARDIMON: I - no. I know he does. And so...
DETROW: He wants you to know he cares.
HARDIMON: Right. I look forward to the Cameron Crowe movie where he is playing the Frances McDormand role, you know? That is what I want.
RIVERS: It would be nice to see Cruise stress himself artistically, not merely physically. But next year, actually, he's supposed to be in a movie from Alejandro Gonzalez Inarritu, who did, like, "Birdman," "Babble," things like that. And we should note that, you know, Cruise has never won an Oscar. He's been nominated three times - lost all three. I think he should have won all three.
DETROW: Well, he's clearly the biggest decades-long star without one at this time.
HARDIMON: Yeah.
RIVERS: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
HARDIMON: Yeah.
RIVERS: So this could be his chance for an Oscar and also maybe his chance to - yeah - to really show that he still can do things other than jump out of planes.
DETROW: Last question for everybody. And I'm going to go first. When you close your eyes and you think of Tom Cruise and you think of a Tom Cruise movie, what is the first that pops into your head?
RIVERS: Oh.
DETROW: For me, I will say it is "Jerry Maguire." It is him on the cellphone. It is him at the Kinko's passionately making the case.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "JERRY MAGUIRE")
CRUISE: (As Jerry Maguire) God. Help me. Help me, Rod. Help me help you. Help me help you.
RIVERS: It's the Cruisiest Cruise. It's like - it's taking the Cruise persona, like...
DETROW: Yeah.
RIVERS: ...The things about Cruise, you know, the kind of need to please and the sense of, is he being for real, and just makes it a part of the character. And it just works so well. I think that's definitely one of my favorites.
HARDIMON: Yeah. His face when he's getting fired is, like, burned in my memory.
RIVERS: Oh, yeah. For me, I mean, it changes all the time. But right now, I have to say, "Collateral," actually. This is the Michael Mann movie from 2004, where Jamie Foxx plays this taxi driver who picks up a mysterious fare played by silver-haired Tom Cruise. He wants Jamie Foxx's character to drive him around so he can make some stops before his flight out of LAX that night. And things going to get crazy on that first stop.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "COLLATERAL")
CRUISE: (As Vincent) Man, you were going to drive me around tonight and never be the wiser, but we're into Plan B. Yeah. We got to make the best of it - improvise, adapt to the environment.
RIVERS: Cruise is kind of using the signature intensity for evil here instead of good. And it's an example of Cruise again - or a director and Cruise kind of in partnership playing with that persona kind of - you know, he's playing against type here, but he's just so riveting, and you can tell he's just having real fun with it. And one of the great LA movies.
HARDIMON: Yes.
RIVERS: And for those who have not seen "Collateral," I mean, it's so good. I can watch every day of my life and be happy.
DETROW: All right, Barrie, Cruisiest Cruise to you.
HARDIMON: So this is going to sound minor. But for me, it's just such concentrated Cruise. And every time I watch it, I enjoy it so much. And it's Tom Cruise and "The Firm."
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE FIRM")
GENE HACKMAN: (As Avery Tolar) Do you think I'm talking about breaking the law?
CRUISE: (As Mitch McDeere) No. I'm just trying to figure out how far you want it bent.
HACKMAN: (As Avery Tolar) As far as you can without breaking it.
HARDIMON: I just love that movie. I really do. I think it's a great movie, and it's about tax lawyers, you guys.
RIVERS: Bring back courtroom dramas.
CRUISE: Like, it's...
DETROW: This isn't a deep-cut answer. Like, you know, my favorite Tom Cruise courtroom drama - not "A Few Good Men," "The Firm."
HARDIMON: Well, I mean - and remember, the thing that's sort of interesting about it is that it seems like it's just a, you know, naive young lawyer, you know...
RIVERS: Young hotshot dude.
HARDIMON: But we do have to see him become seduced - obviously, become seduced - but also become seduced by the money. And we also have to see him and his wife sort of reconcile.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE FIRM")
JEANNE TRIPPLEHORN: (As Abby McDeere) Can we just get in our own car and drive back to Boston tonight? We just leave everything.
CRUISE: (As Mitch McDeere) They'll find us.
TRIPPLEHORN: (As Abby McDeere) How do you go to work tomorrow? How do you look at Avery? What do you say to him?
CRUISE: (As Mitch McDeere) I talk about work.
TRIPPLEHORN: (As Abby McDeere) That's insane.
CRUISE: (As Mitch McDeere) I have thought of every possible way here, in the Caymans, in Washington. That's all I've done, try to think of a way out. If we run, they'd find us.
HARDIMON: I see hints of "Jerry Maguire" in that movie...
RIVERS: Sure. Yeah.
HARDIMON: ...As much as I see hints of, you know, "Minority Report, " running away from, you know, whatever. And it's still - God, guys, that movie slapped. It is so fun to watch.
RIVERS: Underrated Cruise is when he doesn't realize just how in over his head he is.
HARDIMON: Yeah.
RIVERS: I kind of - I love stressed-out Cruise. You know, I love when he's...
HARDIMON: Yes.
RIVERS: Trying-to-hold-it-together Cruise is some of my favorite Cruise.
HARDIMON: Yeah. No, I'm with you.
DETROW: I'm going to say before we end the segment, Tom Cruise, if you or your people are listening, we had wanted to interview you about your career while flying in an airplane with you. Please be in touch if this is of interest.
(LAUGHTER)
DETROW: Until then, that is NPR's Marc Rivers and Barrie Hardimon. Always good to talk to both of you.
RIVERS: Thanks, Scott.
HARDIMON: Thanks.
(SOUNDBITE OF LALO SCHIFRIN'S "MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE THEME SONG") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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