LEILA FADEL, HOST:
For more on how U.S. relations with Europe are changing in real time, we turn to Alexandra de Hoop Scheffer to discuss this new national security memo from the Trump administration. She's president of the German Marshall Fund of the United States, a nonpartisan policy organization that works to advance U.S.-European cooperation. Good morning and thank you for being on the program.
ALEXANDRA DE HOOP SCHEFFER: Good morning. Thank you for having me.
FADEL: So this new national security memo says the U.S. should cultivate, quote, "resistance to Europe's current trajectory" and should stop NATO from perpetually expanding. When you hear that, resist this current trajectory, stop NATO from expanding, what do you think?
DE HOOP SCHEFFER: In addition to that, what you're seeing is probably an increasing gap when it comes to values, when it comes to norms. However, there is a nonnegotiable requirement for Europe and the United States to redefine their relationship, their cooperation, probably much more in terms of shared interests than shared value.
FADEL: This document is out. It really shows that the administration views its relationship with foreign powers really not as a source of freedom in the world, as the U.S. has often seen itself, but a place to reduce migration in the West and to have transactional and financially lucrative relationships. So how should Europe respond in this moment?
DE HOOP SCHEFFER: Well, Europe needs to do three things simultaneously. One is continue to partner with the United States when interests align. No. 2, Europe will have to go it alone when interests diverge. And then No. 3, Europe will have to build alliances with other like-minded powers. You've seen it over the past months with Indo-Pacific countries, but also Middle Eastern countries and Latin American countries.
So I would say what you are seeing live today is a new transatlantic bargain where Europeans are accepting and integrating the idea that the transatlantic relationship is going to be more transactional, more conditional. And that includes collective defense. And so this is the time for Europe to step up to reduce its strategic dependencies vis-a-vis the United States, while at the same time preserving the transatlantic link.
FADEL: What are the implications for the U.S. as it shifts its strategy and other places change their view of the U.S. and their relationship with the U.S.?
DE HOOP SCHEFFER: Well, the U.S. is reordering its global priorities around its core interests and not historical relationships. And you see it with the ranking, right? It's the Western Hemisphere first, it's China second and then it's Europe third. And so, from a U.S. perspective, the expectations towards Europeans, in terms of taking more responsibility for their own security, their own defense, is going to be on the top of the U.S. transatlantic agenda.
FADEL: And you mentioned the war in Ukraine. What could this all mean for that?
DE HOOP SCHEFFER: Yes, well, I think on Ukraine, what you're seeing is Washington on the one side wanting speed. Europe on the other side needs long-term security, stability and needs to avoid a frozen conflict on its doorstep. At the end of the day, this so-called peace plan is actually going to define the terms of the future NATO-EU-Russia relationship. This is going to be Trump's peace deal. And so what Europeans want to do is coauthor this peace deal to be sure that it's going to be a sustainable one, both for Ukraine, but for their own security.
FADEL: We'll have to leave it there. Alexandra de Hoop Scheffer is president of the German Marshall Fund of the United States. Thank you for your time.
DE HOOP SCHEFFER: Thank you.
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