JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
Tensions continue in Minnesota after an immigration agent killed Renee Macklin Good. Meanwhile, the Trump administration is ramping up pressure on sanctuary cities, and that's focusing attention on how local governments interact with federal immigration enforcement and what the White House can require. NPR's Joel Rose joins us now to explain. Hi there.
JOEL ROSE, BYLINE: Hi there.
SUMMERS: So Joel, President Trump says he's going to cut off funding to sanctuary cities in a couple of weeks. Can he actually do that?
ROSE: Well, we still don't know exactly what the president wants to cut or exactly which cities and states are going to be the targets. But the president has given a date of February 1. He said the cuts will be significant, and he seems to be focused on places that limit their cooperation with Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Here's what Trump said about that on - in Detroit on Tuesday.
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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: They do everything possible to protect criminals at the expense of American citizens, and it breeds fraud and crime and all of the other problems that come. So we're not making any payment to anybody that supports sanctuary cities.
ROSE: This is not, though, the first time the Trump administration has made this kind of threat, going back all the way to the first Trump administration. More recently, President Trump signed an executive order almost a year ago directing the departments of Justice and Homeland Security to make a list of sanctuary cities and withhold money from them. But courts have consistently sided against the administration in almost every case saying that the federal government cannot use funding to coerce state and local governments into changing their policies on immigration.
SUMMERS: Just stepping back for a second here, remind us, what are sanctuary cities, and are they breaking federal law?
SUMMERS: There's no exact legal definition of sanctuary city, but broadly speaking, it's any city, state or county that limits its cooperation with immigration authorities. The legal questions here are nuanced. Local law enforcement cannot block federal agents from doing their work, but they can withhold some cooperation. This goes back to the U.S. Constitution and the division of powers between the federal government, which is in charge of immigration enforcement, and state and local governments, which run their own police departments. So courts have backed states that don't want to share information on residents that is in their records, including information about driver's licenses. And in some places, local law enforcement will not honor what's known as a detainer request from ICE, basically asking them to hold someone in jail until immigration authorities can pick them up.
SUMMERS: And how have leaders in these cities been reacting?
ROSE: You know, it's worth noting that virtually all of the leaders Trump has targeted are Democrats, and they don't seem to be backing down. Here's what New York Governor Kathy Hochul said yesterday.
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KATHY HOCHUL: This is just a threat to intimidate states like New York into bowing into submission, and that is something we'll never do. So I say this - you touch any more money from the state of New York, we'll see you in court.
ROSE: Leaders in these states and cities would also say that there is a public safety rationale here. They say that working with ICE would undermine trust and cooperation between local law enforcement and immigrant communities. And clearly, there's a political aspect to this as well. In a lot of these places, voters are asking Democratic leaders not to give in to the White House. So leaders in these places have a strong incentive to dig in their heels.
SUMMERS: Why is this cooperation from local cities so important to the Trump administration with all of the agents that they have already to do this work?
ROSE: Former ICE leaders have told me that they preferred to arrest people who are already being held in local jails because that's easier and faster and safer than arresting people on the street. It is a big reason why ICE was able to make so many arrests during the Obama administration, for example, before sanctuary policies were as widespread as they are now. The White House says that the lack of cooperation hinders its mass deportation efforts. Democrats, though, say the administration is deliberately creating confrontations in cities and states that are led by its political opponents and provoking these chaotic scenes to highlight their anti-immigration agenda.
SUMMERS: NPR's Joel Rose, thank you.
ROSE: You're welcome. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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